This is a subject that came up at the witchy dinner in Ottawa with Judith, Juniper, Brendan and I. We were all flabbergasted by oversharing witches who feel the need to tell everyone who their gods are, what their totems are, and what tradition they are. It gets out of hand when these types go up to other Pagans (usually people they don’t even know) and rudely announce that they know who that person’s animal totem or deity is –sometimes even declaring that the deities and spirits the person has been working with all along are completely wrong (as my friend Snow has experienced)! Yes, because it’s so likely that some stranger knows better than you exactly what spirit you’ve been in a personal relationship with for a decade…
I was taught not to share. Specifically, I was taught not to share who my familiar spirits are, to not share the exact names of my deities, not to share what my unique abilities are, not to share recent spells I’ve performed, and to only talk about my tradition when asked (especially by elders) and never say more than the absolute least I possibly can. You’re probably laughing at me because I write a witchcraft blog that’s all about sharing knowledge, practices, and experiences… but hold that laughter. Have you ever seen me state exactly what all of my animal and plant familiars are? Have you ever seen me list the names of all the ancestors I work with? Have you ever seen me state exactly which traditions I trained in? You may have even noticed that I tend to use nicknames and epithets for the deities I work with rather than their actual names. I tend to skirt around a lot of things about myself. This blog is more of a giant Sarah iceberg and you’re only ever seeing the tip.
Secrecy is a self-protective measure that has been used by magical practitioners… well since there first were magical practitioners. If others don’t know how powerful your spirits and gods are or what their realms of influence are, then they are less likely to be able to harm you, mess with you, or tell everyone about your abilities until you become absolutely hounded by others for help. Also, in some cases, it’s just nobody’s business.
I personally think that oversharing witches are a byproduct of the “look at me I’m special” internet generation. By telling people all about their practice, the oversharers get a sense of validation that they’re a “real” practitioner by stating all their witchy brownie points out loud to other witches. I’ve always found that the witches I really do want to get to know are the quiet ones. Sometimes they may be loud and flamboyant people, but if you observe them carefully they just never let certain things slip about themselves with regards to their magical practice. They may be in the most awesome tradition or local coven ever or have the most mind-blowing supernatural abilities, but no one knows about it because they keep silent about it.
This is the type of witch you want to align yourself with and to aspire to be. Not necessarily humble and modest, but silent, respectful, and cautious. For me “to keep silent” isn’t just a step on the witch’s pyramid that refers to spellwork, it is a daily practice and way of life. The witches you want to avoid are the ones who shout to the rafters how awesome they are and all the wonderous things they can do and have done. So forgive me if I don’t shout some of my abilities and practices to the world, I’d just rather you didn’t know and sometimes there’s that whole oathbound thing involved. A woman’s got to leave a little mystery to herself after all or you wouldn’t keep coming back for more.
While I certainly could never imagine telling people unasked what their spirits are and I agree that the details of spellwork should def be kept silent in most cases, I’m not sure about the deity/spirit part. I’m chewing on it
On one hand I started in Dianic Wicca which has a very “share” mentality, so it’s sort of what I’m used to. On the other, I can see being silent as being a good way to do things. On the other other (!), I live in a small condo and we have a baker’s rack altar in our dining room, it wouldn’t be too hard to recognize deities there if you’re familiar. A “family” style altar seems to be popular around here (NJ) and I’ve found it useful in establishing a hearth energy and it’s nice to see representations of my gods throughout my day.
Fascinating post, and serious food for thought for me. My blog is a project to deepen my practice, explore my writing, and keep myself accountable. But I’ve often wondered about how my next quarter (Feri tradition) will gel with being blogged. I’ve always been someone who kept my cards close to my chest – to a fault. How do I find the line between overshare – which can be irresponsible at worst, self-indulgent too – and thoughtful and positive? I’m certainly open for suggestions! Ultimately, like all things I’ll have to dive in and find out. But this post has given me some things to ponder. Even as I work through my yoga and Hindu quarter.
This is a powerful lesson. Unfortunately, I learned it the hard way, after trying to get “brownie points” from a teacher of mine. I think most new witches fall into that trap if not guided well.
For some of my deities they’re so active in my life that they actually DO come up in conversation (perhaps TOO frequently with the Ghede, as I am often happily complaining about how they’ve embarrassed me this week) but there are powers that I work with that, while Ghede and Freda and the Morrigan are all over my blog, that I just do not speak of, or I won’t give a name, because names have power and letting people know who you work with, I was taught, can be used against you. There are also things like my personal Ghede who comes to me, and I never name her because I think it might compromise me, since she is my personal Ghede.
So if I talk about powers it’s a special thing, it’s because I feel like they should be talked about (or sometimes, because they talk about themselves in the third person THROUGH me, always exciting) and because I trust the person I was talking to, I felt comfortable enough to share, which is why being told Freda, who I love and adore and who has been so very good to me, wasn’t actually Freda by someone who isn’t even a houngan (not that you can TELL who is really a houngan or a mambo here, and not that it matters what they say anyways, because if the spirits tell you, then that’s what you go by) upset me so badly. (Freda is still mad at said person, too.)
I don’t get it, telling people who they work with and who they don’t. Even if one of my deities says someone is lying to me about working with them (and I get this a lot from the spirits I work with, because people have a way of saying they work with someone but it’s exactly that- just talk) but even then, it’s not MY place to say “lol you’re a fake”. People!
Also, sometimes my deities are trolling me with information to see what I will do. They ask me to get something or say something or do something JUST to see if I am on my toes, so I will sometimes get “this person is lying about working with me” and I KNOW that my deity is actually just testing me to see if I will pursue the argument, something I learned a LONG TIME ago not to do, so I never really know until I ask further if I’m being tested. Mostly I ignore this unless it is from my Lady, and when I hear her call someone a liar, I know that’s what they are.
I don’t know if I’m alone in this, but I’ll talk about my totems as in, ie, what animal they are, but my totems have a name besides their species, and it never has even occurred to me to share that.
I’m so glad you posted this, and thank you for linking me!
I fully agree with you. I believe that religion is a personal thing and also, I believe that our work goes not shared with anyone especially with strangers. Often those who talk too much of himself is because he hasn’t a lot to say. As you say, this blog talks about Sarah, in my opinion is not exactly so, it talks about what Sarah has studied and learned, but not her private life as a woman and witch. The nice thing about your blog is this: There’s you and your experiences but there is no selfishness of yourself.
sincerely yours
Completely agreed. I see this constantly online and at larger Pagan gatherings. That little filter in the brain that asks you be be conscious of your words and speech just doesn’t seem to get enough exercise for a lot of Pagans. Tied into the internet generation reason is also the idea that our society expects social interaction to occur in the blink of an eye. We shorten our sentences with abbreviations and slang, even in real life, and this casually breakneck pace of conversation doesn’t often leave most people a lot of time to think about what they’re saying. People would probably be more reticent if they would just slow the hell down.
The same concept applies in Pagan dealings with the non-magical public. I meet so many Pagans who have to promote their faith as the most important aspect of themselves when meeting a new person, no matter if that person actually cares or if religion is even germane to what’s being discussed.
Drives me crazy.
Hehehe your comments so remind me of this: http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/hes-just-not-that-into-you/im-a-wiccan
lol…
Yeah and No.
I do kind of agree with you, but at the same time tend to share more than most of what i do and with whom because if I don’t then all that is out there is same old shit that has been going on for decades.
The group i work with attempting to reconnect with gods who have been largely forgotten in favor of their 11C echoes. The aim of the group is to try to work towards new goals and then put them out there as a counter. Hence I/we publish our hymns to the gods, talk about them and our experiences all with the aim of inspiring people to try to make a similar connection.
IN a weird way I am glad that google searching the names of my gods brings up our blogs and sites on the first page – it means a lot of the guff and bollocks is on the second.
Gods, that came over waaay… to defensive.
It certainly isn’t intended to be
I think it’s different for pagans and recons then it is for witches as pagans are coming from the older heathen point of view when everyone believed in and shared the same gods and used their names in daily speech. Even in preChristian times, the gods of witchcraft were feared and not spoken of and avoided by the general public for the most part. Back then, to state who your witchcraft god was, would lead to persecution and possibly even death by mob – even back then (it was a superstitious time when bad weather, illness, and bad luck could be blamed on anyone). This attitude can still be found in fairy and folk tales. I think people forget that even in ancient Pagan literature, witches were the bad guys or at least a bogeyman.
So true. Before I read Magic in the Ancient World by Fritz Graf, I thought witchcraft as a negative practice was a product of misunderstandings between Christian and Pagan cultures. I found out exactly what you said – that witches were not looked upon with sympathy in the ancient world any more than they have been in recent times. Graf’s book is an eye-opener and I highly suggest it to everyone!
I know what you mean and yet sometimes, darn it, I guess I’ve resembled that description. And yet tip of iceberg I remain. Those days for me are past.
I can think of more than a few occasions where I wanted to raise the “Witch Flag” in order to attract the attention of someone, or even worse, had to fight the impulse to blabber on about all my secrets in order to *prove* something – sincerity, experience, worthiness, etc. Oh what total crap that is. There is a fine line between being true to yourself and lying to all those around you, and I think you nailed it with this post. Now, I never deny being a Pagan or a Witch, but I save the particulars just for myself. “To keep silent” isn’t impressed upon young Witches enough these days.
I have definitely encountered the pagan over-sharer. Especially of the type that will describe, in detail, so-called shamanic journeys and the like, and expect you to play along with every outlandish thing they claim, even though you just met them five minutes ago. Hey, I believe a lot of outlandish things, but I don’t inflict them on anyone else without serious intimacy first.
While I have no issue sharing the identities of my gods (being Recon, it’s not an issue, our gods are well known), I’m definitely more careful with any more specific or personal information. I often have a visceral reaction to people publicly speaking of things that seem so obviously private to me – in ancient Greek there were things that were considered aporrheton (you should never speak of them) and arrheton (you *couldn’t* speak of them; ineffable), and I am very sensitive to both these conditions. I wish more people were.
I think that *over sharing* is not confined to Witches but is becoming a global phenomenon. I am constantly amazed by what people will tell near strangers.
Many folks move their mouths endlessly in order, I feel sure, to prevent anything meaningful happening in their heads. I admit to being one of them but at least I talk mostly to myself!
This is very interesting. Since I was initiated as a Shaman directly by the spirits, and had no human teachers, I’ve had a sort of compulsion to let people know exactly who / what they’re dealing with when they come to me. I feel it’s a way of keeping myself honest. I dread the thought that people might think I’m putting something over on them, doing something ‘occult’. And people bring their own ‘superstitions’ with them, so I like to disarm the hostility that comes with ignorant assumptions. That never seems to go over very well, in any case, so I’m thinking I might be better off to heed your advice! Thanks for sharing!
Love Dagaji
Indeed! If I fully disclosed who I was on my own blog, I don’t think I would share half the things I do. For those who are my acquaintances in real life who know that I am some type of Pagan, I think most assume that I am one of the “love and light new agey types”, since that is all they have probably been exposed to. Which is fine by me. Unless they are someone who is very close to me or one of the small number of locals who are a “client”, I don’t like to divulge much, save perhaps the pantheon I worship.
And this is why I enjoy reading your blog. Thank you.
I used to tell people way more information about myself than they needed to know out of a great need to explain myself and I have always been someone that truly believed in the saying “honesty is the best policy”. It has made me out to be the fool on more than one occasion. I also know it has been used against me as well. The ironic part is I never really advertised much when it came to my spiritual beliefs. Just basically, everything else. I have learned to keep my mouth shut, rarely answer nosey questions, and definetely keep my own counsel. The very hard way of course. The thing about being such a tell-all for me was I felt that i had to explain myself to put other people at ease with me. I am a weirdness magnet, as in very strange out of the ordinary things tend to happen around me basically the majority of the time, and most people tend to notice it and put two and two together. I tend to make most people very uncomfortable with my “strangeness” and the “bizarre events” that they don’t want to believe actually happened. I have compensated by being very talkative in the past.
“Honesty is the best policy. If I lose mine honor, I lose myself.” Shakespeare also said, “When words are scarce they are seldom spent in vain.”
This has actually lit a fire under my ass to finally finish up and post about the difference between “Called Shamans” and “Shamanic Practitioners” – parsed into Witch-community terms, ‘course.
I’d like to read that.
Great post and very timely for insight I am sharing with students at the moment. I am going to have them read this blog post
It’s pretty simple: unless a general convo comes up about religion and you are asked, shut the hell up about religion, which is very personal. This applies to EVERYONE.
I am old enough to recall when religion was almost never brought up in public, and I think that was good manners. It’s private; just like your sexual activities, your personal grooming and how you raise your children. Few want to hear your intimate details, no matter what they are.
Can we pleaseeeeeeeee return to some manners, dignity and decorum in society now?
Interesting post. It shows how different my tradition is in that we Druids tend to talk a lot about who our patrons and ancestors are. I think, generally, we’re more private about our personal spirit guides/fetches, house spirits, local deities, etc. The major tribal Gods, like Brighid and Lugh, are known by many so we’re not shy to discuss our relationships with them. That said, many of us are comfortable that different people have different relationships with said Gods. It’s all very interesting. We tend not to talk about it to non Druids (unless asked). I think doing so is usually rude.
It makes sense for witches, especially when oathbound, to keep secret about their Gods, etc. That said, I appreciate what you do share.
Sound advice.
Really, for me I’ve never had the opportunity to speak with other witches. Any contact I do have is with people I don’t know online… which is why I really appreciate you posting topics like this that give you an insight into what it must be like to actually be involved with other witches etc.
As they say, ‘quiet people are well able to look after themselves’.
I lie when I need to. A question unanswered often arouses more attention than one answered.
When I tell someone something personal it’s like I give away a part of myself… And I don’t like sharing.
I find it quite extraordinary as to how open people are on the Internet giving information about their private praxis and posting photos of their personal magical tools and even working sites , almost with sat nav cordinates! I was taught ‘To Know, To Dare, To Will and To keep Silent’ and the last I was told was the most important.
I’ve always liked practicing in “darkness and secrecy” isn’t that what witchcraft is for? I went on a long rant about people self naming themselves shaman, which before Harner, used to be a name only given by a tribe, not by oneself, but I deleted it.
I guess there is no point to self naming yourself if you can’t proclaim it to the world now is there?
Lucky for me I’m a loner in a sea of people who don’t practice, I don’t have that problem of people telling me all about their occult knowledge and they all know that I’m weird anyway, I don’t have to tell them that.
Lots of things to think about! Thanks for your post. Based on your thoughts, I think I may be one of those folks who shares quite a bit. However, I would not term it oversharing because I share no more than what I and the deities/spirits I work with deem appropriate (based on who I am, who they are, and where we are in our Work together). I really think that what gets shared, when, and to what degree is the product of an alchemy between the person and their spirits/deities. Ultimately, the only ones who can draw lines in the sand with regard to sharing or not sharing are the folks in a particular relationship.
Sometimes its tough when I want to share something and then I get that feeling in the pit of my stomach or a direct comment through divination that I can’t, but I honor that feeling/reading. However, I tend to get the no sharing sign a lot less often than even I really expected. Of course, my take on things does not excuse folks who share against the will of the beings with whom they work. That’s just wrong. But then again, those relationships will fade and the person will just be ranting about adventures in make-believe land; not anything real. Further, my take does not excuse folks who go around “guessing” about and trying to tell folks who their deities are and are not. That’s just obnoxious. But then again, those people will run out of Pagans and Witches to call friend. From my perspective, both problems fix themselves.
The oversharing issue is a tough one. “Over” anything is problematic but who determines what’s “over” I think depends on the two or more folks in the relationship in question. I will confess though that my relationships are all fairly young and my practice is still developing. Your thoughts will be on my spiritual dinner table to chew over for quite some time yet.
Nice blog post and some interesting comments…
There’s a fine line between keeping silent and becoming reclusive, and between sharing and oversharing. Staying on the right side of those lines requires experience and thoughtfulness… not to mention some social skills.
I couldn’t post on the sequel, the other post because comments were closed. I didn’t read them, but did the OP so I will post here instead.
I have seen over-sharing. It appeared to me that with some people the secrecy of witchcraft or just sorcery had been lost. There was a reason, not just fear of persecution, that people kept secret.
Saying that my practices are my own thing from various sources. The biggest inspiration is brujeria and Mesoamerica. Nahualli are similar to what people call totems, its essentially the animal that shares your soul with you. You’re supposed to keep it secret because if you do not than a witch may attack you. Its simple logic really if you piss people off a lot.
I couldn’t have said that better myself. I even wrote an article on my Facebook page about The Witch’s Pyramid/Four Words of the Magus. (To Know,To Dare,To Will and To Be Silent) and I did so for a lot of the new witches I’ve come across on Facebook who do what you mention in your article. I too skirt the issues I don’t talk about who my special deities are etc, and I only speak about general spiritual principles of wicca, witchcraft and other spiritual principles never any specifics. I have to agree, a lot of the young witches, or people new to the path are so eager to share that they figure the more they share the better off they are. Some people are so eager to share their knowledge because they think oh I’ve read everything I’ve done this or that in learning that I’m an expert, even the authors I’ve read don’t even admit to being that, far from it, we are always learning always growing, and it’s fine to share general information but never ever specifics, unless within the coven you work with if you’re in one, and even then I think there would be boundaries though I am not sure I am a solitary eclectic witch. I plan on sharing this on my groups on Facebook too.
I agree with your blog completely and have to say I just love the picture of the crones having tea!…Nice touch!..Blessed Be